[...] Fita wants to warn all SEOs to be on the lookout for a call from Goldline Research. The company claims to be looking for SEOs [...]

UGH! I hate people who try to pull such things. I’ve received similar calls to be listed in the Whos Who of People Who Are Dumb Enough To Be Scammed By Us, to be interviewed for an online radio show at only 5K/month, etc.etc.etc.

Much empathy for what you went through; that’s just plain lousy.

Barbara

That’s even worse than the calls from seo wannabes who claim they have a website and ask what we advise them to do to promote their site, when in reality, it’s their client’s website and they just don’t have a clue how to promote it.

Thanks for the heads up. I just got a phone message stating that my Internet Marketing Company was selected for this INC SEO Analysis too, and this makes my research on them easier ;).

We just received a call from GoldLine Research. She asked if she could speak to the owner. I asked if this was a solicitation call and she went on to explain that they are doing something for INC magazine and that XLS Technologies was selected for a call from their research department as one of the top SEO firms. She then directed me to their website and told me to click the "Sample Artwork" tab to see how their write-ups look. She told me I could go through the selection process online and gave me a three digit code? She also told me if I had any questions I could call the 415 number listed on the contact page and ask for someone by the name of Allen (I did not write down the last name).
I suspected something might be wrong with this call from GoldLine Research for several reasons. I decided to do some checking and found this post! I never got into talks about spending money but I was rather resistant. Something of this magnitude (seemingly) would more than likely come in the form postal mail (maybe certified) and they would more than likely know who the principals are by name. I would think a research company like GoldLine Research that claims to have ties with giants like INC magazine could gather this information and avoid cold calling. Better yet, TopSEOs recently released a list of the top 30 SEOs. They could start their research there.
Thanks for starting this post as we have decided not to go through the "selection process" with GoldLine Research. I can not speak as to weather they are a bad research firm with unethical business practices or not, since we never gave them a chance. I am very sorry to hear of your experience with them but am thankful that you took the initiative to provide a detailed explanation of your experience with GoldLine Research.

Ok. I’m just insulted that they didn’t try to rip me off too.

I just received a message from them about the Inc. magazine opportunity. Luckily through the power of Google I happened upon this. Thanks for saving me some time and effort!

Same scam, different target, not they say they are looking at “lawyers who are the most reliable in the west” and that I came to their attention from a review of my peers. Their new magazine they say they work for is FORBES.

We were listed in the top 10 and put in Inc Magazine, along with firms such as Bruce Clay. But we never were solicited for any payment in order to be listed. The only thing we paid for was a few hundred bucks for a custom plaque with the study on it so that we could hang it in our office. And it was our choice to purchase that.

I am finding these types of discussions all over the Web and am perplexed because we never had to pay for that distinction. We did however go through a fairly rigorous interview and qualification process. So the entire thing to us seems very legitimate. If we find out that they want any money from us we will gladly pull our press release about our award.

A competitor is using the top-10 list as a testimonial in my area. It seemed suspicious that I had not heard of 9 of the 10 companies on the list. Here’s a great one - one of their listed criteria for inclusion in this august group of national firms is “Have Worked with 40+ Search Engine Marketing Clients”. Whoa - 40 clients or more? That would eliminate……my 14 year old.

Beware? hmmm…don’t belive so… I just saw a link to this post on http://www.seroundtable.com and my comments there were like this:

“I have a subscription to Entrepreneur Magazine and after reading your blog I checked it out… There is a full page from Goldline Research listing the 10 Most Dependable Web Design Companies in central us in the May edition.

So I went just for grins to check to see how much a full page ad in Entrepreneur magazine actually costs.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/mediakit/franchise/print2008ratecard.htm

With a full page containing 10 companies at $3500 the most they can make is $35000 - however
the full page ad if it is one per year was $65000 so they would of actually lost money, even if they did one a month for 24 months it still would have cost $54000. (all this based on the rate card on the magazine’s site)

So doing simple math I do not see how they would have cheated you… more like giving it to you half off lol and that is not bad.

BTW the full page ad in Inc. is wow over $100000 so again they would have been like half off.” at the $5500 you mentioned they asked for Inc.

Here is the Inc. magazine rate card and youll see what I mean:
http://www.inc.com/mediakit/MAG_adrateterm.html

I guess simple logic still works?
A scam that looses money for the scammer is really not plausible.

I just saw their website at http://themostdependable.com and it seems like they are giving the 10 most dependable lists out for the asking to anyone that is interested…that sounds like advertising for a year on their site as well if there is one of these lists published per year.

Cornel, you mention simple logic and you go on to tell us how they are doing this and losing money. Do you really believe they are doing this and losing money? That likely would not be that simple logic you just spoke about.

And logically, if they have nothing to hide or deceive about, why the long drawn out process to get to the money part. Why not say they will get you into those magazines for half of what it would normally cost right up front?

They don’t even mention money until later in the process, never in the beginning. Does that sound right to you?

I’m just saying that their “sales” technique does not lend credibility to what they are doing and that your “logic” about how they are losing money and doing this for people doesn’t really hold much water.

Miguel- This makes sense to me, more well known firms (like yours) don’t have to pay for their “winning” because you along with Bruce Clay bring great credibility to their so called competition…

Then this means that smaller firms have to pay the media cost bill…that to me still sounds like a money making scam. Just another point of how we need regulation in the SEO industry to have real legitimate awards, not bogus ones like this…

Hi folks. We want to jump in here and set the record straight on a number of comments about our recent SEM list. It appears that there is some confusion in the marketplace regarding our company, our services and our business model.

We started Goldline Research more than four years ago to solve a simple problem: How do I find a dependable professional that I can trust to give me good service? The Internet is a great resource, but it’s not always easy to find “the” firm that you are looking for (especially with all the search engine jockeying going on out there). Industry associations are useful but not everyone joins the association, and not every industry has one. Friends and colleagues are great sources as well, but often they don’t have recommendations to offer. We realized that there were lots of people experiencing the same challenge, and we believed that there was a market need for a company that would help consumers identify third party-reviewed service professionals.
Our business model is similar to other companies such as J.D. Power, Good Housekeeping (and a whole bunch of others out there like them). We started researching service professionals in a variety of industries where consumers had a hard time finding a dependable provider. Our research process entails five broad steps, including determining industry-specific criteria, conducting detailed company interviews, talking with customer references, reviewing public records and quantitative analyses. Over the years we’ve expanded our industry coverage and strengthened our research process. To date, we have interviewed nearly 10K professionals in ten different industries. We don’t have any allusions that what we do is the be-all or end-all. We just think it’s a cool, helpful service to both consumers and to the companies we research and publish.

While I’m at it, there is another point of confusion that I want to clear up. We tell *everyone* that we speak to that we are not Inc. Magazine or Forbes or any other magazine. We don’t pretend to be working for any of those publications, nor do we pretend to be “Inc. Magazine editors”. We are also upfront that we do charge a fee for our work. We wish we didn’t have to charge fees, but, until Uncle Sam starts providing this service with our taxpayer dollars or subsidizing our business, we have to keep the lights on. We do our best to minimize our overhead expenses, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, Inc., Forbes, etc. cost more than $100K for a one-off advertising page, so promoting the companies that we think are dependable in those magazines isn’t cheap, and nearly all of the service fees that we charge go to pay for the publication. During our interview with a company, we tell them about our service fee. We only charge fees to the firms that make it to the final list. *Every company* that wants to be considered past the interview stage in our process signs a contract agreeing to the fees and the services we provide should they make it to the final list. There is no “bait and switch” going on here as was alluded to at some point in the thread. And, no, we do not discount our fees (or make our service free) to “bigger” players to make our list more credible or charge different fees to “smaller” players. Everybody pays the exact same fee no matter what.

The companies that receive our seal of approval see some useful benefits. Many of our clients have told us that our seal of approval helps provide them with credibility in the marketplace in that this helps them stand out above the fray. We also know that we help get them access to major local and national publications for promotional purposes that they would otherwise not be able to get to because it would be cost prohibitive. And, if that wasn’t enough, we do our best to help firms with their marketing. After all, many of small and medium-sized firms that we talking about (of which I’m guessing many of you on this thread are) are trying to grow and become more successful, and this has proven to help them with that.

Over the last four years, we have completed more than 100 research lists. People keep coming back to participate each year because they are getting value. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t exist. We really appreciate the lively discussion here, and, if you have suggestions for ways that we can improve our offering (useful suggestions, please; the flame messages aren’t very helpful), let us know or give us a call.

So still, if a smaller company was selected by your “process” and did not want to pay for your advertising and costs, they would not be on the list of top companies.

If you were selecting the top 10 and 3 decided not to pay, it would not actually be the top 10 best companies would it?

Lets say the first 20 companies you select do not want to pay for your service. You would then be selecting your 21st choice and calling them #1?

Maybe your ads should read, “The Top SEM Companies That Were Willing To Pay Us To Be On This List”.

I ran across this site to do a bit of research after receiving a letter from my Financial Advisor stating that they were “pleased to announce being named One of the Most Dependable Wealth Managers of the Great Lakes by Goldline Research”.

Victoria, I’m curious: you mention that your company’s selection process “entails five broad steps, including determining industry-specific criteria, conducting detailed company interviews, talking with customer references, reviewing public records and quantitative analyses.”

Forgive the question, but who researches the researchers?
What makes one research firm’s opinion more valuable than another?

And namecritic does bring up some great points, namely:

“Lets say the first 20 companies you select do not want to pay for your service. You would then be selecting your 21st choice and calling them #1?”

Do companies like JD Power and Good Housekeeping charge a fee as well for clients to be listed as “most dependable”? Are all research lists comprised of those that simply agreed to pay a fee to be listed, versus being truly considered the top of their field?

Thanks for this informative site. I was debating it, but after reading this site decided I could put my advertising dollars to better use. Thanks Mark and namecritic in particular for the arguments you made about selection and research, etc.

Ken Jansen REALTOR Overland Park Kansas

Well, well, well. It’s a typical rant about small businesses who want something for nothing. You want the recognition and accolades for your hard work, but you don’t want to pay for it. You want “true independant research” but you can’t have it, because it does not exist. J.D. Powers and D&B make money by selling your information to data providers who, in return, re-sell the information to business who are willing to pay for it, for their own marketing campaigns. What we are talking about is disclosure. The disclosure of fees upront, BEFORE agreeing to be listed in the “Most Dependable” List published by Goldline Research. Eager sales people have from time to time neglected to inform business about the ‘Shared Publication Costs” , I am sure, but let’s be frank, without sales the world may as well be stop spinnining around it’s axis. So, cut them some slack regarding their telephone marketing calls to your offices. We are all trying to earn a living here, and frankly, no-one has a monopoly on good ideas. The “actual” research performed is suspect at best. Is Goldline Research conducting truly independant research, and who determines what that research consists of? What are the crireria? Phone calls from front desk operators calling on three business references? Indusrty standing? Who determines that? The Better Business Bureau? Even they charge money to be listed! Hello!! There is no free lunch, folks.
Ask yourself these questions:
1. What am I doing right now to grow my business?
2. Who knows about me and my services that I provide?
3. Am I waiting by the door for people to stroll on in?
4. What trade associations and communities do I belong to get the word out about my business?
5. If I teel mu Aunts and Uncles about what I do, will they recommend me to 10 new customers that can use my services?

Obviously, if you have to resort to vanity and sign up for a “The Most Dependable” list, you deserve to spend your money at the carnival. Indeed, Las Vegas is a better choice. At least you agree to be scammed when you read the “Welcome” sign on I-15.

But you better have a plan for marketing your business, or you’ll get torn asunder. Only the strong survive in this free market economy, unless you are Fannie Mae and count on a government check to bail you out.

Anything else, I have no sympathy for you. it’s a dog-eat-dog world where “Caviat Emptor” reigns surpreme. At least you have a choice, that’s why you live in America.

Remember, “Most People don’t plan to fail, They fail to plan!”
—— Ben Feldman - NYLIAC — 1972

Hmmm. Hoseboy talks about others ranting, then proceeds to rant. Anyone see the irony in that?

He says, “Well, well, well. It’s a typical rant about small businesses who want something for nothing.”

Uhh, no one called Goldline asking them for anything at all. Goldline called them.

He also wrote, “Eager sales people have from time to time neglected to inform business about the ‘Shared Publication Costs” , I am sure, but let’s be frank, without sales the world may as well be stop spinnining around it’s axis.”

So Goldline admits they don’t do upfront disclosure? You just verified what everyone was talking about. Thank you.

He also wrote, “The “actual” research performed is suspect at best. Is Goldline Research conducting truly independant research, and who determines what that research consists of? What are the crireria? Phone calls from front desk operators calling on three business references? Indusrty standing? Who determines that?”

These are the exact questions that were being asked because Goldline failed to answer them.

I agree with the rest of your post hoseboy. Just found it hard to figure out who you were ranting against, the research firm or those that questioned it’s business practices. Or were you just intending to rant to everyone?

Hi Chris,

Just a general rant about folks who claimed to have been scmmed in some fashion or other by unscroupolus TM’s . I know it’s a pain in the a.. to get cold calls in your place of business especially when conducting actual work and just having told your significanr other never to call you here again… and there is that Telemarketer again! My sympathies go out to those Inside sales folks who are actually trying to make a living and get hung up on 99 times out of 100. Having said that, if it’s too good to be true and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it’s probably not AFLAC.
Nobody claims GL research is the “Cat’s Meow”, but I am certain that they provide a marketplace for those companies that have not been heard from and do a brilliant job, but never have the budget for a full-on marketing campaign. This top 10 list may actually be beneficial for those firms with limited budgets. Never mind that the criteria are not measuring up to JD Powers standards.

Let’s face and truth be known, GL should be upfront about the cost and, be frank about their business model. However, consider this, would you listen to a cold caller who just told you on the phone that his name is John and he wants a huge chunk of your nin-existant advertising budget to put a blurb in some magazine? I think not. But give’em a break,. They are not half as bad as some other scammers out there who take your money and run.

Just thought… just another rant…

HB

Hello Victoria are you there……